This is HIS Story Podcast

Episode 28 - Should Churches Ask for Money?

July 28, 2022 Todd Turner, Creative Digital Guide Season 1 Episode 28
This is HIS Story Podcast
Episode 28 - Should Churches Ask for Money?
Show Notes Transcript

Christians come to the table with many lenses and theological assumptions. Today, I am going to challenge a few.

Today's episode will have some things you may or may not agree with. I am poking at some traditions in a way to challenge YOU and your thinking. I do not know if I am 100% right but I am ok with pointing, observing, and looking under some traditional rocks, if you will.

  1. Churches benefit from a tradition and the phrase "tithing."
  2. Pastor teach give to church first then additional goes elsewhere
  3. High Profile Pastors have NOT helped. Prosperity Gospel
  4. Churches Spend what they collect by hiring more staff or building more buildings or bigger programs.
  5. Many do this spending in the vein of "Seeker Sensitive."
  6. Companies that help... wealth giving (taxes & strategies)
  7. Companies that help fundraise for projects
  8. People like me.... Move church from passing the plate to digital collection of generosity.

Listen in as we discuss churches, fundraising, money, pastors, and giving to churches.

Welcome to the, This is HIS story podcast. The executive director

and pastor guide to sowing

and reaping online givers. Welcome to episode 28: Should churches ask for money?

Well, let me start with why even picked this topic right now

and part of it is because I have a tick tock.

Many of y'all probably don't know that, but it's sort of a hobby job,

/ marketing /.

I love theology. So I have a Christian Tick-Tock Channel and on there,

I made a post recently, they got a lot of feedback,

and I was just quite frankly. Shocked at the amount of what I thought would have been,

you know, heavily skewed one way and went a totally different way.

And I basically the post was just a short maybe not even at 10 second video where

I put the average percentage that church budgets.

Give to their pastors. It was just a survey.

Like literally, I wasn't saying,

one way or the other, what I thought should be the case.

I was just stating, you know,

here's the survey results. It's and it doesn't matter what they are for this purpose.

I don't even remember exactly. And I don't think I really gave a tone or an opinion,

maybe in the comment. Other than I certainly believe you don't starve your pastor.

Like, you know, of course, you know,

a workers worth is Wages, right? But the feedback I got was shocking.

Even a couple of pastors wives through in their comments like,

hey, my husband works like a sleigh or where we work three jobs as we passed her.

Church and we liked it.

You know, or better. Yet. We didn't know we had a choice is probably

what they should have said

but there's a lot of churches are a lot of people out there who

believe that you don't give money to your pasture,

like they're passionate work for free, or should work for free or should work poor,

they should not have any money

and it just got me thinking how one healthy The church congregations are,

and part of that is this Catch-22.

The pastor's don't feel like they can talk about money because it makes them feel greedy.

So it's a giant problem.

So I want to talk a little bit about that. So here's some things I'm going to say.

And by the way you, may or may not agree. Like,

I know, one thing that happens a lot in Christendom,

especially American, but maybe it's worldwide phenomenon,

but we're all listening with discernment.

But the problem is We don't have the same discernment,

right? We come in with some preconceived notions

and we're listening to see if the other person fits what we believe.

And then if they don't in one little area,

will throw away the rest of what they had to say. Because I'll,

well, they're not of sound mind because they don't believe exactly like me.

So, just give me some Grace. I'm going to say things.

You may not agree with, but I will tell you this,

I want to challenge. You always like challenging myself.

And the way we think the lenses that we have

on And I'm okay with pointing out observing looking under some traditional rocks,

if you will too. So just once again,

I'm not preaching to you,

but I'm just going to point out some things

as I see them and then you can challenge them based on the way you see them

and maybe we move the needle and let's hopefully move the needle in the correct.

Way, a theologically sound way

and it may look different

for each one of you based on your denomination size of church special situations,

right? Right. But there's some things that I see is true that

complicate this issue of should churches,

ask for money or how to churches, ask for money.

So, let's set the table. All right, here we go.

First churches benefit from a tradition and that's the tradition of just give to your church.

We all grow up being told to give to our church.

I know some of you right there and sort of the word biblically,

tell your people to give to the church, but hold that thought.

And we at churches benefit from the phrase,

tithing like there is a universal accepted phrase,

that means give 10% of everything you own to the church.

Now I'm going to challenge that certainly I'm going to challenge it.

That tithing was clearly Old Testament and the New Testament,

sort of raised. The bar is the, the Lord likes a cheerful Giver.

Well, that didn't stop at 10% and it's not 10% at the Baseline.

Everything else is above and beyond, but we hear that in church a lot,

a lot of churches Lord that over. They still use the phrase phrase.

Tithing. So, you've got some of you guys doing that.

And some of you at least are shepherding flocks,

who grew up with that wording,

and the thought that you are supposed to give your church at least 10% to pastors,

teach, I believe incorrectly that you're supposed to give to your church first,

then above and beyond goes elsewhere.

Now, this to, I have other Episodes about this

but this too is not necessarily biblical

because the Bible does talk about giving

and it does talk about cheerful givers and it does talk about giving the kingdom work.

But I challenge you to spend though if you disagree with what I'm saying,

right now, I challenge you to get back with me.

I've done a lot of study and I've talked to a lot of pastors and matter of fact,

one of my pastors, the doctor has a doctor from Seminary and he says Sighs.

I used to teach this when I was a full-time Pastor.

Now, he writes books and does other stuff, but he says,

yeah, it's wrong. It's just not there.

It's not in the Bible that you give to your church first,

and then above and beyond elsewhere. I mean,

we are supposed to be givers and give them give us the kingdom work.

But the idea is that we owe our church,

our first fruits, when the Bible teaches,

we owe God. First fruit that first fruit May land a lot of

different places other than the church first.

So but once again, a lot of us are under the assumption

because we assume it or we've been told by it or preached it and preached it,

a lot, third issue, high-profile prep pastors have not helped.

We have so many pastors out there with especially in the Prosperity Gospel.

But even, even not all Prosperity Gospel of people who are doing very financially well.

And they talked about Being blessed,

they assume they're more spiritual.

They certainly put all those airs and they also sort of persuade people that have you give,

you will be blessed to. And it's,

it's complicated but it's messy

and it brings stains a lot of pastors from being able to babli talk

about the truth of the Bible about giving

because they don't want to be Associated.

And I've heard that a All the times of Astral II,

just want to say that, I'm not going to talk on that

because they're going to think I'm going to get this feedback from my flock,

or I don't want to touch that with a 10-foot pole versus just preaching.

With the Bible says, and let it land where it met,

whether they like it or not, unfortunately that happens number four churches,

spend what they collect. And if they make any higher,

they normally spend that on more staff or to build more buildings,

or expand their programs, and many of you are thinking,

well, of course we do. Well, the issue I'm trying to make here,

is that There is no strategy strategy is based on the money you spend.

I mean, it doesn't mean you don't think through what you wish you have a wish list,

but it's more like we're going to spend,

and we're going to build and we're going to grow to the level that we receive income.

And that's a slippery slope, because then you end up with a gigantic staff,

a gigantic building gigantic programs and that's not necessarily good.

There's an assumption is Really wants to quote,

unquote grow. But once again,

a weird lens of growing the church versus growing,

the kingdom, I mean, remember our jobs

as pastors is to equip the Saints for your for the good work that they have in front of them.

And so, and to Spread spread the gospel,

right? A bigger basketball gym in your church,

so that your kids can play and not hear a league where other kids who might custom you know,

is that Kingdom work. No,

it's not but we can argue that later.

All right, five, many do this building staff programs in the guise of,

Seeker sensitive meaning we Bill programs like we need a pretty Church.

Our people won't come in. We need outward-facing programs or people won't come in.

We were building Out programs based on Seekers when the reality is,

is that your people are supposed to be Salt and Light and churches,

actually made for believers, right?

Sacraments are made for believers. Our conversations

are made for believers and I have this notion that if we're supposed to spend money build buildings,

Look Away act away. Encourage people to walk in that building,

so then we can tell them the truth of the Gospel.

When the Bible is pretty clear that no,

we're supposed to be out being

Salt and Light as Believers to our neighbors and we're supposed to be loving people,

and our pastors are both be equipping us and there's nothing in there that says,

bring the loss to your pastor and let them do the gospel preaching.

It's not There. But yeah, that's how we're we're set up,

which is very interesting something to really chew on number six.

There are companies out there who help churches because,

and it funny boy,

this is a rabbit Trail. Try not to go down

but unfortunately the American Church treats pastors of

CEOs and where God may give somebody the ability to teach,

it doesn't mean he's giving the ability to be a great CEO,

a great leader of staff. A great all,

the ten different hats that people assume pastures where

and some pastors don't even control their own household income.

Very well, how in the world are going to control the flocks money and their budget,

and the resources, they're just not built that way.

You're not built that way. We're not. No one is perfect like that and it just,

it's just not possible. So, there are companies out there who help pastors,

and there's actually a really, uh, not very interesting position.

I'm I'm sort of seeing pop up and that is this.

So if you're a church listening in the nonprofit World,

they have development officers

and those are people who look at the database of the people who give to an organization

or connect to an organization.

And you can do. Well, screening, you can find out which one of them are capable of what I could say,

putting commas, and checks, right? Writing checks,

with commas and them big checks,

and they put these development officers or advancement officers Or.


The people that can give and they build relations with them,

they tell them why to give and whatever.

Well, churches, don't do this,

right. They just once again, back to number one and two,

they just live with the idea of your supposed,

to give to your church and he extra go,

somewhere else, and you're supposed to be tithing.

Well, what we're finding is, there are some people who have income that are looking,

what to do with that income as they're alive.

And then of course, afterwards

and churches are In this approach of advancement officers are

Vellum and officers who help people manage their wealth.

Like the church will literally pay for an outside service.

I'm a married putting on staff when we're talking megachurches here,

but we're like, let's help you like let their tax breaks.

There are things that that somebody who's an expert knows that can help.

People give generational wealth to the Next Generation or to the church generation.

You know, to the church Kingdom,

work and growth and it's a phenomenon that's going on right now

because churches quite frankly I have zero clue about all that,

right? Because they just live

for Sundays and then it's past the plate

and then there's also companies out there number seven companies have helped fund

raise for projects.

So churches need a new building or Over it.

Is they want to do, they want to buy some land? It's above,

and beyond their normal budget. And so there are companies out there.

I used to work with one generis great company run by a great person.

And there's Consultants that come in,

they help churches raise money and they're amazing,

they do it for a fee, they don't do it off of a commission there.

There's Jr.'s is just one of the big boys,

there's a big gorilla in the room, but there's other companies.

Like pursuant they are more for non parachurch Ministries like hospitals,

universities, you know,

outside church but generis really,

really try to stay in the Church Lane and been doing it for decades and then there's people like me.

I'm a digital fundraiser.

Meaning, I help churches move from passing a plate into the digital collection of generosity

and it's funny with covid-19.

As everyone went online, I thought I'd be really,

really, really busy. But it was funny

as as churches scrambled to put their service online

and then wondered how they pass the plate online,

they really didn't take the next step which was the step.

I wanted everybody to take and think through what your digital case for support is.

It's not just a, we have a place to give and look at works.

You type in your credit card? Hit enter it works.

We get the money but it's the help people building a case for support.

Why should I give to the church?

Because all these eight things I just talked about those are facts

but most churches don't do a great job explaining why you should give to the church

and give I mean each week I don't mean why you should give each week.

I'm saying each week since you meet weekly,

you're either not telling a story or at best,

you're telling the same story. You were little more sophisticated

and wearing to do project-based some Churches don't like earmarking so that makes it complicated.

But you know, how I work with churches,

is I have a length of Kingdom Minded lend lens and that's why I quite frankly.

It's so much easier for me to work with nonprofits.

That it has four churches because nonprofits have this Mission.

It's a mission. They know how to talk about the mission.

Not all. I'm doing well. Well but it's easier to talk about the one thing we do.

We help build wells in Africa for villages without you know,

clean water. And then we spread the love of Christ to them as we serve them,

right? Whatever it is, whatever it is. We help homeless people in South Detroit,

that's what we do. And then they don't normally do a good job of making sure

all their digital channels tell the same story

and that's where I come in and help but with churches,

churches are so busy talking about Sundays,

These common, their staffs are built for Sunday.

They have a rhythm to the week. Everybody just does what they do.

It's Ministry, it's Sunday's,

coming, Sunday's coming and

so they normally have to bring people from the outside to help them with the different

lend because everybody's in the Rut of Sunday's,

coming and churches, have a bigger problem

and that is because they do

so many things and because they're you won't like this phrase

but they're fundraising for church overhead at the end of the day.

It's guys, we got to pay the pastor, we got to pay the light bill,

we got to pay our mortgage like you need to give to us

and sometimes it's more attractive for a donor to give to a thing.

A thing that gets your heart going. Like,

if they were abused, when they were younger, they want to give to a place that helps abused kids

and that's where they're sometimes.

Their first fruits are going in church over here, like,

but do you see our pastor has a, you know, kinda like he's got to keep paying for it.

When you see this giant building it and pay for it. Self.

And so churches are unfortunately.

Sometimes in the Rut of the created of monster,

they got to feed the monster

and givers are sort of not interested in feeding the monster and so it makes things complicated.

There's a way to tell your story to get your members /,

donors, / generosity givers into the kingdom mindset of giving and out of the well,

I just owe you a check because it's a habit.

I'm supposed to give you 10%

and then I'm supposed to give to other people after that which is not true.

So anyway, if you ever need any help, if you want to chew on these things,

I'd love your feedback and of course I'd love to help if anything right here,

put a question mark over head about churches and how do we ask for money?

And why do we ask for money and what are we really asking for,

what are we really doing and need fresh eyes as your team Works to tell your?

For every week on they're doing it on social media whether it's volunteers or your staff.

Through emails, through newsletters

through what you hand out on Sundays to what you put on the screen,

all of it is telling a message

and with most of you infant in consistent messages message

and it's one that hasn't really been thought out very well and that's where I come in so blessings.

I'd love to hear from you getting contact me.

Go to creative digital guide.com and you can get ahold of me there.

Thank you. Thank you for listening to today's episode of.

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